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2008-01-31 20:38:37 +00:00

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{% extends "_layout.html" %}
{% block title %}Pages/meeting121.html{% endblock %}
{% block content %}<h3>I2P dev meeting, December 21, 2004</h3>
<div class="irclog">
<p>13:05 &lt;@jrandom&gt; 0) hi</p>
<p>13:05 &lt;@jrandom&gt; 1) 0.4.2.4 & 0.4.2.5</p>
<p>13:05 &lt;@jrandom&gt; 2) 0.5 strategy</p>
<p>13:05 &lt;@jrandom&gt; 3) naming</p>
<p>13:05 &lt;@jrandom&gt; 4) eepsite roundup</p>
<p>13:05 &lt;@jrandom&gt; 5) ???</p>
<p>13:06 &lt;@jrandom&gt; 0) hi</p>
<p>13:06 * jrandom waves</p>
<p>13:06 &lt;@jrandom&gt; weekly status notes posted a lil while ago @ http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2004-December/000528.html</p>
<p>13:07 &lt;@jrandom&gt; lets jump on in to 1) 0.4.2.4 & 0.4.2.5</p>
<p>13:08 &lt;@jrandom&gt; for those of you who have already upgraded to 0.4.2.5 - a good 1/3 of the network so far - thanks!</p>
<p>13:09 &lt;@jrandom&gt; i do try to keep a more calm pacing to the releases, but there were some things in 0.4.2.5 that really needed wider deployment</p>
<p>13:10 &lt; Madman2003&gt; 0.4.2.5 is working well for me when it comes to disconnects, but i don't run i2p 24/7(i had quite a few irc disconnects lately) and it's only been a few hours after the release</p>
<p>13:10 &lt;@jrandom&gt; as mentioned later on in the email, i dont have a planned date for when the next bugfix release will be, but we shall see</p>
<p>13:10 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ah great Madman2003 </p>
<p>13:10 &lt;@jrandom&gt; yeah, its definitely too early to tell about 0.4.2.5</p>
<p>13:11 &lt; frosk&gt; i used to see periods of high lag on .4, so far none of those with .5, but again, a bit early</p>
<p>13:11 &lt; frosk&gt; (i'm talking about irc lag, of course)</p>
<p>13:11 &lt;@jrandom&gt; the dns bug fixed could manifest itself in large numbers of peers running older releases failing at once, so the sooner people upgrade, the better</p>
<p>13:12 &lt;@duck&gt; is that related with the failures on those manually entering a hostname?</p>
<p>13:12 &lt;@jrandom&gt; yep</p>
<p>13:12 &lt; dm&gt; how useless is the windows system tray I2P icon!?!?</p>
<p>13:12 &lt;@duck&gt; ah, so that is why config.jsp is still friendly</p>
<p>13:13 &lt; Madman2003&gt; anyone have a clue why some still run pre 0.4.2.4 routers?(it's been out a while)</p>
<p>13:13 &lt;@jrandom&gt; dm: its more of a placeholder right now, plus a status icon saying "i2p is running"</p>
<p>13:13 &lt; dm&gt; They have a life? :)</p>
<p>13:13 * jrandom should resent that...</p>
<p>13:14 &lt; redzog&gt; is there a way to do soft-restarts from the command line?</p>
<p>13:14 &lt;@jrandom&gt; redzog: unfortunately not</p>
<p>13:14 &lt; redzog&gt; hmm, pity</p>
<p>13:14 &lt;@jrandom&gt; other than with wget, perhaps</p>
<p>13:14 &lt; redzog&gt; would make it easier to do automatic updates</p>
<p>13:14 &lt;+detonate&gt; i2prouter stop && i2prouter start :)</p>
<p>13:14 &lt;@jrandom&gt; no, nm, wget wouldnt work either</p>
<p>13:14 &lt;@jrandom&gt; (as the form requires interaction)</p>
<p>13:14 &lt; Madman2003&gt; i generally update trough cvs several times in between releases(at best once a day), only takes a few minutes</p>
<p>13:15 &lt; redzog&gt; lwp::simple could manage it</p>
<p>13:15 &lt; redzog&gt; just a POST</p>
<p>13:15 &lt;@jrandom&gt; redzog: support for that would be pretty cool</p>
<p>13:15 &lt; redzog&gt; I'll try to whip something up</p>
<p>13:15 &lt;@jrandom&gt; well, its more than just a post, you need to read the form presented to you then post those fields back</p>
<p>13:16 &lt;+detonate&gt; eventually releases will be further spaced though.. right?</p>
<p>13:16 &lt;@jrandom&gt; (there's a hidden flag to prevent people from doing things like &lt;img src="/configservice.jsp?action=restart"&gt;</p>
<p>13:16 &lt; redzog&gt; heh, right</p>
<p>13:16 &lt;@jrandom&gt; right detonate, t'wasn't planned to be this rapid, once a week at most</p>
<p>13:16 &lt; redzog&gt; does the nonce value change?</p>
<p>13:17 &lt;@jrandom&gt; if it didn't, it wouldnt be a nonce ;)</p>
<p>13:17 &lt; redzog&gt; hmm, seems so</p>
<p>13:17 &lt; redzog&gt; well, between sessions, between pageloads... ;)</p>
<p>13:17 &lt; redzog&gt; pageloads it is</p>
<p>13:17 &lt;@jrandom&gt; right</p>
<p>13:17 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ok, anyone have anything else wrt 0.4.2.4/0.4.2.5?</p>
<p>13:18 &lt;@jrandom&gt; i'm sur there'll be more discussion later after we've burnt in the new release more</p>
<p>13:18 &lt; dm&gt; oh, is this a meeting?</p>
<p>13:18 &lt;+detonate&gt; starting up seems to be a lot less smooth</p>
<p>13:18 &lt;+detonate&gt; than 2.3</p>
<p>13:18 &lt;@jrandom&gt; oh? in what way detonate - cpu, lag, memory, time?</p>
<p>13:19 &lt;+detonate&gt; the list of peers takes forever to populate</p>
<p>13:19 &lt;+detonate&gt; and i get a huge number of shitlisted peers</p>
<p>13:19 &lt;+detonate&gt; also the i2ptunnel stuff sometimes hangs, but generally seems to take at least 2x as long to actually start up</p>
<p>13:19 &lt;+detonate&gt; once it's started things smooth out</p>
<p>13:19 &lt;+detonate&gt; it's odd</p>
<p>13:19 &lt;@jrandom&gt; hmm, what does it list for the cause on /logs.jsp#connectionlogs ?</p>
<p>13:20 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;BS314159&gt; I just did a graceful restart into 0.4.2.5. It took 120s to have Local Destinations</p>
<p>13:20 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;BS314159&gt; seems good</p>
<p>13:20 &lt;@jrandom&gt; cool BS314159 - thats pretty much the bare minimum, as we don't start i2ptunnel until 2 minutes after startup :)</p>
<p>13:20 &lt;+detonate&gt; there's nothing out of the ordinary</p>
<p>13:20 &lt;+detonate&gt; a shutdown exception</p>
<p>13:21 &lt;+detonate&gt; but i think i caused that</p>
<p>13:21 &lt; mule&gt; i have pulled over 300M through fcp for a movie with the last release. never been that good before. top rates beyond 40k. great work.</p>
<p>13:21 &lt;@jrandom&gt; wow, nice mule!</p>
<p>13:21 &lt; mule&gt; however i still have serious trouble with recovering from an IP change</p>
<p>13:21 &lt;@jrandom&gt; detonate: hmm, ok, i'd love to debug this further after the meeting or another time you have available</p>
<p>13:22 &lt;+detonate&gt; yeah</p>
<p>13:22 &lt;+detonate&gt; ok</p>
<p>13:22 &lt; dm&gt; tunnel lag: 364ms. What the fuck is going on , the tunnel lag is dropping 100-200ms on each release!</p>
<p>13:22 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ah mule, ok</p>
<p>13:22 &lt;@jrandom&gt; i've got an idea for how we could deal with those hung tcp connections - just toss on a 5m keepalive</p>
<p>13:23 &lt;@jrandom&gt; heh dm, dont worry, it'll get back up again ;)</p>
<p>13:23 &lt; frosk&gt; wow, i only have 261ms here :)</p>
<p>13:24 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ok, if there's nothing else, lets jump on to 2) 0.5 strategy</p>
<p>13:24 &lt; dm&gt; That can't be right...</p>
<p>13:25 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Looks like I'm late for the meeting again.</p>
<p>13:26 &lt;@jrandom&gt; there's still a lot of work to be done with 0.5, but a broad outline of the process was included in that email</p>
<p>13:26 * jrandom sends ugha2p to the principal's office</p>
<p>13:27 &lt;@jrandom&gt; there are still some details left to be worked out on the tunnel pooling and creation, but i think we've got a few different offerings that will meet the needs of various user bases</p>
<p>13:28 &lt;@jrandom&gt; there'll be some good ol' fashioned documentation posted once most of the kinks in the design are hammered out for y'all's review</p>
<p>13:28 &lt;@jrandom&gt; (currently its taking up ~8 pages in the notebook, should compress well though)</p>
<p>13:29 &lt; kaji&gt; has the meeting started yet?</p>
<p>13:29 &lt;@jrandom&gt; but another one of the tasks listed for 0.5 is "deal with the bandwidth needs of the network", and i have no idea how to plan for that, so we'll play that by ear</p>
<p>13:29 &lt;@jrandom&gt; yes kaji, we're on 2) 0.5 strategy</p>
<p>13:30 &lt;@jrandom&gt; well, thats all i have to say about that at the moment, unless anyone has any questions/comments/concerns?</p>
<p>13:31 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Wow, most of the routers have already upgraded.</p>
<p>13:31 &lt;+detonate&gt; is filtering http traffic to strip out javascript/etc in the roadmap?</p>
<p>13:31 &lt;+detonate&gt; for 0.5</p>
<p>13:31 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; detonate: No.</p>
<p>13:31 &lt;@jrandom&gt; detonate: 0.6</p>
<p>13:31 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;cat-a-puss&gt; WRT bandwidth, should we enable probabilistic tunnel length, and/or local biased tunnels, for bittorrent as in general BT users have a weaker threat modle?</p>
<p>13:32 &lt;@jrandom&gt; cat-a-puss: yes, definitely. thats one of the big parts of the 0.5 release</p>
<p>13:32 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; detonate: Unless you implement it first. ;)</p>
<p>13:32 &lt;+detonate&gt; i was thinking about it</p>
<p>13:33 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;cat-a-puss&gt; will html filtering be conducted in a seperate process?</p>
<p>13:33 &lt;@jrandom&gt; i think michelle is looking at that too, so if you two wanted to work together (michelle is learning java) that'd rule</p>
<p>13:33 &lt;+detonate&gt; ok</p>
<p>13:33 &lt;@jrandom&gt; cat-a-puss: i know not. </p>
<p>13:34 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; cat-a-puss: Why should it?</p>
<p>13:35 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;cat-a-puss&gt; (I ask because I was thinking of making a proxy that ran all incomming brouser traffic through clamav) That is GPLed so if we could include that in the filter, it would probably be good.</p>
<p>13:35 &lt;@jrandom&gt; cool cat-a-puss!</p>
<p>13:35 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Some people already use Privoxy for I2P.</p>
<p>13:36 &lt; bens&gt; in general, I'm anti-including-stuff</p>
<p>13:36 &lt; susi23&gt; I would rather see people configuring their browsers right than promising to protect them from malicious code.</p>
<p>13:36 &lt;@jrandom&gt; susi23: no one configures their browser properly</p>
<p>13:36 &lt;@jrandom&gt; especially not joe sixpack</p>
<p>13:37 &lt; frosk&gt; one can wonder if Joe is even able to set a proxy for his browser</p>
<p>13:37 &lt;@jrandom&gt; my personal view is that something cgi-proxy like would be ideal</p>
<p>13:37 &lt;@jrandom&gt; exactly frosk</p>
<p>13:37 &lt;@jrandom&gt; with a cgi-proxy like interface (filtering according to their preferences, safe by default), even a drooling moron could use it</p>
<p>13:38 &lt; bens&gt; I suppose I2P needs multiple versions for multiple markets even more than MS Office</p>
<p>13:38 &lt;@jrandom&gt; 'tis why we have small components and push this stuff out of the router bens ;) </p>
<p>13:38 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; a proxy auto config file would help</p>
<p>13:39 &lt;@jrandom&gt; Ragnarok: we have one, but there are still dangerous things that can be done with it</p>
<p>13:39 &lt; frosk&gt; maybe a specialized i2p browser even (if someone is drowning in free time ;)</p>
<p>13:39 &lt; susi23&gt; ragnarok: that one? http://dev.i2p.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/i2p/apps/proxyscript/i2pProxy.pac</p>
<p>13:39 &lt;@jrandom&gt; frosk: on the specialized i2p OS and hardware too, i suppose</p>
<p>13:40 &lt; frosk&gt; hehe, perfect</p>
<p>13:40 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; that's not in the install, though</p>
<p>13:40 * jrandom implements those in the specialized i2p universe</p>
<p>13:40 &lt; susi23&gt; . o O ( perhaps we should try to find a dedicated i2p planet too )</p>
<p>13:40 &lt; susi23&gt; . o O ( damn, too slow )</p>
<p>13:40 &lt; mule&gt; ok, we'll sell the hardware :)</p>
<p>13:40 &lt; frosk&gt; you know what they say, to create something from scratch, first create the universe</p>
<p>13:41 &lt;@jrandom&gt; w00t, now all we need are some investors..</p>
<p>13:41 &lt; bens&gt; seriously, a firefox autoconfigurator might be reasonable</p>
<p>13:41 &lt;@jrandom&gt; bens: the .pac susi linked to above should do the trick</p>
<p>13:41 &lt; bens&gt; not just for proxy; also for the security settings, homepage, etc.</p>
<p>13:41 &lt;@jrandom&gt; we can ship that with the install too, but its insufficient for people who need anonymity (and are not ubergeeks already)</p>
<p>13:42 &lt;@jrandom&gt; hmm, perhaps that sort of thing could go into cervantes' i2p xul app</p>
<p>13:43 &lt;@jrandom&gt; but thats getting further off topic from the 2) 0.5 strategy</p>
<p>13:43 &lt;@jrandom&gt; anyone else have anything for that, or shall we move on to 3) naming?</p>
<p>13:44 -!- Irssi: #i2p: Total of 40 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 6 voices, 32 normal]</p>
<p>13:44 &lt;@jrandom&gt; consider us moved</p>
<p>13:44 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ok, aparently i kind of jumped the gun w/ the 2.0.1 ref of addressbook - Ragnarok, want to give us an update?</p>
<p>13:44 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; jrandom: Can we expect the dates on the roadmap to be correct?</p>
<p>13:45 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ugha2p: they currently reflect my best estimate</p>
<p>13:45 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; jrandom: Ok, right.</p>
<p>13:45 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; it's released now</p>
<p>13:45 &lt;@jrandom&gt; w00t</p>
<p>13:45 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; check ragnarok.i2p</p>
<p>13:45 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; I wasn't planning on releasing it yet, but jrandom forced my hand :)</p>
<p>13:46 &lt;@jrandom&gt; hehe</p>
<p>13:46 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Ragnarok: Btw, you're missing a link from the homepage. :)</p>
<p>13:46 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; it's just a few bug fixes, nothing major, but it should deal better with some corner cases</p>
<p>13:46 &lt;@jrandom&gt; its on the top right ugha2p </p>
<p>13:47 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; ugha2p: it's on the sidebar</p>
<p>13:47 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; I'll add links to the post as well, though :)</p>
<p>13:47 &lt; mule2&gt; "that'll be the day when i die". daily IP change to set the clock after.</p>
<p>13:48 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; anyway, if everyone could try it out, that'd be nice. Bug reports are always appreciated</p>
<p>13:48 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Ragnarok: Oh, that sidebar is seriously fucked in Opera.</p>
<p>13:48 &lt; mule2&gt; Lease expired 12773d ago</p>
<p>13:49 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Ragnarok: Well, not really fucked, but just located at the end of the page.</p>
<p>13:49 &lt;@jrandom&gt; cool Ragnarok, thanks</p>
<p>13:49 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; your window's probably not wide enough</p>
<p>13:49 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Ragnarok: Right, but it should work with any window size.</p>
<p>13:50 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; So you might want to fix it in the future. :)</p>
<p>13:50 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; ugha2p: should is an interesting choice of words :)</p>
<p>13:50 &lt; Frooze&gt; ah, wrong in mozilla 1.7 too. my window is small though.</p>
<p>13:50 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Why's that?</p>
<p>13:50 &lt; Frooze&gt; thanks ragnarok. cool stuff.</p>
<p>13:51 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; I may fix it in the future, but it's really low on my priorities</p>
<p>13:51 * jrandom prefers addressbook updates to html fixes</p>
<p>13:52 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; anyhoo, any questions?</p>
<p>13:53 &lt; frosk&gt; thanks for addressbook, Ragnarok, sounds very useful</p>
<p>13:54 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Is the documented way of loading addressbook the only way, or are there any less intrusive ones?</p>
<p>13:54 &lt; kaji&gt; i just installed it, it rocks</p>
<p>13:54 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; you can start it by hand using "java -jar addresbook.jar &lt;path to i2p/addressbook&gt;"</p>
<p>13:54 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; thank you :)</p>
<p>13:55 &lt; kaji&gt; oh, and i dled version 2.0.0 is there an update someware?</p>
<p>13:55 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; ok, I fixed the column, it was just a stupid mix of absolute and realitive sizes</p>
<p>13:56 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; yep, there's 2.0.1 up now on ragnarok.i2p</p>
<p>13:57 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; I'm getting "Failed to load Main-Class manifest attribute from" now, but never mind, I'll do a restart later.</p>
<p>13:57 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; whoops</p>
<p>13:58 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; that's my bad</p>
<p>13:58 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; I'll try to fix that soon</p>
<p>13:58 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Ah, okay. :)</p>
<p>13:58 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; there will also be an easy to install .war version soon</p>
<p>13:59 &lt; dm&gt; jrandom: you are a machine</p>
<p>14:00 &lt;@jrandom&gt; wikked, thanks Ragnarok </p>
<p>14:00 &lt;@jrandom&gt; susi23: ping?</p>
<p>14:00 &lt; susi23&gt; 1200ms</p>
<p>14:01 &lt;@jrandom&gt; !thwap</p>
<p>14:01 &lt;@jrandom&gt; anyway, wanna give us a rundown on whats up w/ susidns?</p>
<p>14:01 &lt;@jrandom&gt; or should that wait for later?</p>
<p>14:01 &lt; susi23&gt; do we have time for a more general discussion about naming stuff?</p>
<p>14:02 &lt; susi23&gt; what features we want in the future?</p>
<p>14:03 &lt;@jrandom&gt; some of my thoughts are posted up on http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2004-February/000135.html</p>
<p>14:03 &lt;@jrandom&gt; (for what general features)</p>
<p>14:04 &lt;@jrandom&gt; i think the hardest thing will be weaning people off globally unique human readable names, but with some good interfaces it should be doable</p>
<p>14:04 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; implementing the data structures you outlined in xml is one of my next goals</p>
<p>14:04 &lt; susi23&gt; ok, there is a small writing about attributes at http://susi.i2p/removablekeys.html</p>
<p>14:05 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; wow.. pretty crowded in here tonight</p>
<p>14:05 &lt; bens&gt; ragnarok: have you checked out YAML? Might be easier</p>
<p>14:05 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Jnymo: Yeah, we're trying to hold a meeting here.</p>
<p>14:05 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; YAML's name is far too apt</p>
<p>14:05 &lt;@jrandom&gt; cool susi23, though i think we'll definitely want to migrate away from the plain hosts.txt format</p>
<p>14:05 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Quadn-werk&gt; addition of a command line graceful restart?</p>
<p>14:06 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; ugha2p: ah</p>
<p>14:06 &lt; susi23&gt; are there any ideas how to keep names unique in the long run?</p>
<p>14:06 &lt;@jrandom&gt; one of the important parts of the data to be managed in the naming service is for an entry to be signed, requiring some hard structure (or careful xml)</p>
<p>14:07 &lt;@jrandom&gt; i dont believe in globally unique human, human readable, and secure names.</p>
<p>14:07 &lt;@jrandom&gt; (i bundle centralized & secure together)</p>
<p>14:07 &lt;@jrandom&gt; susi23: have you seen http://zooko.com/distnames.html ?</p>
<p>14:07 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; I think using an addressbook like system, the names will end up being mostly unique, since it's in the interest of the person claiming a name not to choose one that's already in use</p>
<p>14:08 &lt;@jrandom&gt; Ragnarok: we'll see. perhaps</p>
<p>14:08 &lt; susi23&gt; i'll check this out</p>
<p>14:08 &lt; bens&gt; I suspect trusted authorities will emerge</p>
<p>14:08 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; well, there already is one</p>
<p>14:08 &lt; frosk&gt; hosts.txt? :)</p>
<p>14:09 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; jrandom's, yeah</p>
<p>14:09 &lt;@jrandom&gt; or if not trusted authorities, names that include the path to uniquely identify it</p>
<p>14:09 &lt;@jrandom&gt; (e.g. "the site orion.i2p calls 'frosk.i2p'")</p>
<p>14:10 &lt;@jrandom&gt; Derek Eddington had some posts along those lines in september - http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2004-September/000432.html</p>
<p>14:10 &lt; bens&gt; frosk.orion.i2p</p>
<p>14:10 &lt;@jrandom&gt; smtp.frosk.ns.orion.i2p</p>
<p>14:11 * jrandom starts building uucp bang paths</p>
<p>14:11 &lt; frosk&gt; hah</p>
<p>14:12 &lt; susi23&gt; ok, what now... how about a "naming roadmap"? :)</p>
<p>14:12 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; you guys have swayed me away from an absolute distributed dns for i2p.. somewhat.. but ducks ideas started me thinking that a trust system might work.. like, a lookup could bring back a list of sites/files, and each could be listed with the amount of trust that the network gives it</p>
<p>14:12 &lt; susi23&gt; once we agreed what to do</p>
<p>14:12 &lt;@jrandom&gt; thats a good idea susi23, wanna write one up?</p>
<p>14:13 &lt;@jrandom&gt; trusting other people's trust has potential, but needs to be done very carefully</p>
<p>14:13 &lt; susi23&gt; I could do this, but I still have no idea WHAT we want to do. There are some decisions to make.</p>
<p>14:14 &lt;@jrandom&gt; (aka only according to the terms that you trust the peers along the chain to the trust author)</p>
<p>14:14 &lt; modulus&gt; there is or there should not be a "network trust" of a site, trust has to be user-centric always</p>
<p>14:14 &lt;@jrandom&gt; susi23: roadmap step 1: decide among $featureset</p>
<p>14:14 &lt; susi23&gt; Or at least we have to develop all ideas into a more precise concept.</p>
<p>14:14 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; well, if it was explicitly simple.. like, if files i2p listed how many sites linked to siteinquestion.i2p</p>
<p>14:15 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; ok, the I've updated the addressbook package with an executable jar.</p>
<p>14:15 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; er, files.i2p</p>
<p>14:15 &lt;@jrandom&gt; jnymo: that turns into a centralized authority - files.i2p</p>
<p>14:15 &lt; modulus&gt; not to say that you could poison the pool of links by establishing a shitload of sites.</p>
<p>14:16 &lt; modulus&gt; googlebombing on i2p</p>
<p>14:16 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; true.. but files i2p could be decentralized</p>
<p>14:16 &lt; susi23&gt; ok, how about collection ideas/information/concepts until, lets say january</p>
<p>14:16 &lt; orion&gt; 'lo all. I see naming is on the table.. *again* :)</p>
<p>14:16 &lt; susi23&gt; then comes the decision phase, ok?</p>
<p>14:16 &lt;@jrandom&gt; sounds good - will you be the point of contact to gather that together?</p>
<p>14:16 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; sure</p>
<p>14:16 &lt; modulus&gt; doesn't matter if the trust aggregate is descentralized, trust has to emanate from the user. anything else can be poisoned imo.</p>
<p>14:17 &lt; susi23&gt; can't we take the mailinglist for this?</p>
<p>14:17 &lt; bob&gt; or perhaps ugha's wiki?</p>
<p>14:17 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; agreed.. but what how to do that? put a little trust meter bar at the top of the web browser?</p>
<p>14:18 &lt;@jrandom&gt; the wiki would be good, we can gather links to all the previous discussions there</p>
<p>14:18 &lt; modulus&gt; jnyo: probably the most feasible solution is to bind to the first name encountered or something.</p>
<p>14:18 &lt; dm&gt; let's all give a hand of applause to jrandom for his wonderful project management</p>
<p>14:18 &lt; susi23&gt; fine</p>
<p>14:18 &lt; modulus&gt; but there are more ways than sausages.</p>
<p>14:19 &lt; susi23&gt; url to the wiki? (for the records)</p>
<p>14:19 &lt; ant&gt; * Jnymo claps</p>
<p>14:19 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ugha.i2p</p>
<p>14:19 * dm claps</p>
<p>14:19 &lt; susi23&gt; ok</p>
<p>14:19 &lt; susi23&gt; then I'm done and ping jrandom back ;)</p>
<p>14:20 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; modulus: so, if i refer a link to someone else, i'm refering them to the site i first binded to.. that might work.. </p>
<p>14:20 &lt;+ugha2p&gt; Looks like jrandom has ping timeouted.</p>
<p>14:20 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ok cool, anything else on nami^W nm, no more on naming. on to the wiki</p>
<p>14:20 &lt; modulus&gt; anyway, if you're linking you'll probably want to put an absolute path in the link, not just a name</p>
<p>14:21 &lt;@jrandom&gt; moving forward to 4) eepsite roundup</p>
<p>14:21 &lt; dm&gt; dm.i2p is up and running</p>
<p>14:21 &lt;@jrandom&gt; cool</p>
<p>14:22 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ok, i dont really have much to add beyond whats mentioned in the mail</p>
<p>14:22 &lt; bob&gt; nice to see an influx of sites! all speedy to access as well!</p>
<p>14:22 &lt;@jrandom&gt; aye, agreed bob</p>
<p>14:22 &lt; bob&gt; orion, thanks for your work.. I use your site daily.</p>
<p>14:22 * jrandom too, the 'last updated' is especially helpful</p>
<p>14:23 &lt; bob&gt; dm: :-)</p>
<p>14:24 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ok, if there's nothing more on that, we can jump to 5) ???</p>
<p>14:24 &lt;@jrandom&gt; is there anything else people want to bring up for the meeting?</p>
<p>14:24 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; hows the net status?</p>
<p>14:24 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; wrt 4.2.5?</p>
<p>14:25 &lt;@jrandom&gt; its looking good, but the release is only a few hours old, so too soon to tell</p>
<p>14:25 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; oh, heh</p>
<p>14:25 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; any fusenet news?</p>
<p>14:26 &lt;@jrandom&gt; (http://piespy.i2p/i2p/i2p-current.png heh)</p>
<p>14:26 &lt; frosk&gt; my work on i2pcontent has been largely put aside for some weeks, but the latest version of the document can be read at http://frosk.i2p/i2pcontent.html . if anyone is interested, do read, and do comment harshly if needs be (om irc when i'm not /away or mail to frosk@mail.i2p)</p>
<p>14:26 &lt; frosk&gt; i2pcontent/fusenet/anything ;)</p>
<p>14:26 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; wordicus</p>
<p>14:28 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ok, if there's nothing else...</p>
<p>14:28 &lt; mule2&gt; tons of applause for all the excellent contributions</p>
<p>14:29 &lt;@jrandom&gt; aye, y'all are doing some kickass shit</p>
<p>14:29 &lt; frosk&gt; you too, jrandom :)</p>
<p>14:29 &lt; orion&gt; word.</p>
<p>14:29 &lt; orion&gt; yes, very much so, you too jrandom.</p>
<p>14:29 &lt; scintilla&gt; hear hear!</p>
<p>14:29 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; yea, i noticed on the site, theres less info on how to help out</p>
<p>14:29 &lt;@jrandom&gt; sometimes kickass, sometimes ass kicked ;)</p>
<p>14:29 &lt; orion&gt; HIP HIP</p>
<p>14:30 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; HORRAY</p>
<p>14:30 * orion smiles</p>
<p>14:30 &lt; Frooze&gt; downloaded eclipse today, to learn java over holiday, because y'all are so impressive.</p>
<p>14:30 &lt;@jrandom&gt; jnymo: many of the small easy-to-accomplish tasks have been done</p>
<p>14:30 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ooh wikked Frooze </p>
<p>14:31 &lt; Frooze&gt; so, trouble on horizon. heh</p>
<p>14:31 &lt;@jrandom&gt; jnymo: i really should collect some more of them though and post 'em</p>
<p>14:31 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; jrandom: You still looking for someone to help out on alexandria.i2p?</p>
<p>14:31 &lt;@jrandom&gt; (take cover arizona!)</p>
<p>14:31 * jrandom is not involved in alexandria, but yes, i believe they are still looking for a librarian</p>
<p>14:31 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; learn to swim, folks ;)</p>
<p>14:31 * orion loves pump up the volume references. Vague though they may be.</p>
<p>14:31 &lt;@duck&gt; yes we do</p>
<p>14:31 &lt;@jrandom&gt; :)</p>
<p>14:31 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; jrandom: where is the war actually supposed to go?</p>
<p>14:31 &lt;@jrandom&gt; (orion++)</p>
<p>14:32 &lt;@jrandom&gt; Ragnarok: i2p/webapps/addressbook.war</p>
<p>14:32 &lt;@jrandom&gt; (then restart the router)</p>
<p>14:32 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; duck, you talkint to me?</p>
<p>14:32 &lt; Ragnarok&gt; cool. I shall commence testing</p>
<p>14:32 &lt;@jrandom&gt; r0x0r</p>
<p>14:32 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; duck: is alexandria on your site?</p>
<p>14:33 &lt;@duck&gt; duck.i2p/alexandria/</p>
<p>14:33 &lt; ant&gt; &lt;Jnymo&gt; word</p>
<p>14:34 &lt;@jrandom&gt; ok, if thats all, we can slide out of here @ the 90m mark..</p>
<p>14:34 * jrandom winds up</p>
<p>14:34 * jrandom *baf*s the meeting closed</p>
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